tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post3501421726146537255..comments2024-03-28T09:33:26.444+00:00Comments on No Rock And Roll Fun: Bono's friends: How to save the music industrySimon Hayes Budgenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07084524317888577404noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-75679695936438340042010-09-22T22:31:01.234+00:002010-09-22T22:31:01.234+00:00Simon, thank you for this post. You did a great jo...Simon, thank you for this post. You did a great job of analyzing McGuinness' arguments and pointing out the hypocrisy within them. <br /><br />Also, I visited Allen's myspace, and I didn't see much ravaging going on there. In fact, most commenters agreed with her. If she is that offended by a few negative comments, then she needs to develop a thicker skin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-79224396397972615212010-08-30T11:15:07.855+00:002010-08-30T11:15:07.855+00:00I have to disagree Tony - a dictionary records how...I have to disagree Tony - a dictionary records how words are used, not necessarily what they mean, and there are some words where it is useful to try and preserve their meaning.<br /><br />Even using it without the specific reference to a 10th part, it still can only mean a limited but noticeable damage rather than serious, debilitating damage. Which still isn't what McGuinness meant, I don't think. It's hard to say, because he was using language sloppily. Which is why it's important to try and preserve the actual meaning of a word, so when it's used, we know if someone means 'small damage' or 'large damage'.Simon Hayes Budgenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07084524317888577404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-19404989247574516752010-08-30T09:07:41.372+00:002010-08-30T09:07:41.372+00:00Let me join in on the hot topic here: Decimate has...Let me join in on the hot topic here: Decimate has been defined by the OED without reference to a 10th for over a century.<br /><br />"What it is often used to mean in modern life does not change the definition"<br /><br />Erm, that's precisely what happens.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15062798800404421922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-27951089812155814862010-08-24T14:51:46.580+00:002010-08-24T14:51:46.580+00:00Can't believe that no one has picked up on thi...Can't believe that no one has picked up on this little nugget:<br /><br />"Why should the price paid not correspond to the number of times the music is "consumed"? "<br /><br />A hilariously naïve comment from the manager of U2 - how much money do you think U2 would have made off their last few albums if they got paid for the number of times the disappointed punters *actually* listened to them before filing them away with a sigh?<br /><br />This takes us to the crux of the matter that also doesn't get discussed much - "free" is scary to the music industry because if their artists release complete stinkers then people operating in "try before you buy" mode get to see the light BEFORE they have handed over their £10 or whatever a CD costs these days.<br /><br />Therefore the new age of "free" will reward the artists who release truly outstanding music and the shit bands that no one likes (any more) will either step up to the mark or wither on the vine<br /><br />FACT - if you make truly outstanding music then illegal filesharing will NEVER harm you.Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01653815125880196756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-45544603916123413512010-08-22T21:25:56.239+00:002010-08-22T21:25:56.239+00:00Many non-musicians who are free-loading consumers ...Many non-musicians who are free-loading consumers have been stealing from artists also for the past ten years as well - two wrongs definitely do not make a right. <br /><br />Why is it so hard to pay for stuff you want on your computer and devices - there are many options to buy on-line.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-15976145466776567432010-08-22T11:24:38.830+00:002010-08-22T11:24:38.830+00:00"There is never any excuse for stealing!"..."There is never any excuse for stealing!"<br /><br />This is very true and yet large numbers of non-musicians in the music industry have been getting away with stealing from the artists for years and I've never heard people like McGuinness complain about that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-80128965443491178222010-08-22T09:59:00.115+00:002010-08-22T09:59:00.115+00:00QUOTE: "There will always be some people who ...QUOTE: "There will always be some people who hand money over because they're convinced it's the right thing to do. <br /><br />But they're always going to be in a minority."<br /><br />Answer: People who hand over money are convinced it is the right thing to do because it the honest and honourable thing to do to pay for that which you enjoy! <br /><br />Business is you produce a product that consumers want and they pay for it!<br /><br />Why is are that artists are raped of their income because people want it free! There is never any excuse for stealing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-63480548360091682702010-08-22T09:23:26.673+00:002010-08-22T09:23:26.673+00:00Most musicians are very poor and do not fall into ...Most musicians are very poor and do not fall into the category of the few blessed that make it big in the industry.<br /><br />Yes. It's always been that way, though - the way the music industry has worked for decades is that you have a very, very few acts who make an awful lot of money, and most who scrape by for a couple of years before collapsing under the weight of notional 'debt' thrown on them by the labels. We have never lived in a world where musicians make lots of money.<br /><br />You're falling in to the same trap as McGuinness - assuming that when someone says 'I can understand you're worried, but the way music is distributed has changed, fundamentally, and forever. It would be great if everyone did say 'yes, I'll pay for the music I listen to'. But they won't. And however much you shake your fist and call them pirates and freeloaders and wish it was otherwise, it isn't.<br /><br />There will always be some people who hand money over because they're convinced it's the right thing to do. <br /><br />But they're always going to be in a minority. And however much you try to rig the legal system and tweak the technology, that's always going to be the case.<br /><br />You have a product - music files - you cannot control the supply of; whether you wish it otherwise or not, that's how it is.<br /><br />It's not turning on people like a pack of dogs - it's just telling the truth. We don't live in 1983 any more.Simon Hayes Budgenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07084524317888577404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-42207471589318744062010-08-22T03:42:13.214+00:002010-08-22T03:42:13.214+00:00What a beat up!
This is exactly why artists dont...What a beat up! <br /><br />This is exactly why artists dont speak up about piracy because freeloading on-line pirates, their supposed fans, can turn on them like a pack of dogs if they voice any concerns about consumers stealing their music products and depriving them of their rights to earn a decent living. Most musicians are very poor and do not fall into the category of the few blessed that make it big in the industry.<br /><br />Be honest and buy the media you have downloaded and enjoy free of charge. Support music instead of devaluing it and trampling all over it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-90428591569794340652010-08-21T09:28:53.499+00:002010-08-21T09:28:53.499+00:00Someone on Twitter, by the way, suggested I was co...Someone on Twitter, by the way, suggested I was conflicted, welcoming the embrace of Spotify while decrying subscriptions. To be honest, though, on the desktop version I forget that you even could pay for Spotify, and don't see why anyone would.<br /><br />Oh, and snide and self-satisfied? That'd be house style, that would.Simon Hayes Budgenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07084524317888577404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-35468588462904923272010-08-21T09:28:39.958+00:002010-08-21T09:28:39.958+00:00Unless, that is, you think these areas of the indu...Unless, that is, you think these areas of the industry will thrive via a network of volunteer guitar techs, radio pluggers or mastering engineers.<br /><br />I think we need to put radio pluggers to one side, briefly, and you're right, that there are non-musician people will still need to be paid. I'm not sure you're totally wide of the mark when you mention "volunteers", though - look at the live music and club scene, where many, many thousands of nights are put together by people who don't do it for a living - and quite often at a loss. Other roles? There's still money around - people are still buying records; radio is still generating royalty payments; there's live and licensing and fan-funding. The shape of how money flows around music is changing, but that doesn't mean that everyone will be working for free.<br /><br />Remember: just because something is not paid for at the point of use doesn't mean it's not been paid for somewhere along the line.<br /><br />Radio pluggers, though? Back when there was only snail-mail and telephones, and hundreds of radio stations, the radio pluggers were vital in the process. But they're starting to feel increasingly like the people who used to visit the independent shops every week with the new releases - there's still some work to be done, but they feel a little like the people who used to deliver ice to houses at the start of the last century.<br /><br />Someone said should musicians be doing a lot of the donkey work rather than focusing on the creative process? I tend to think, well, yes, but that misses the point.<br /><br />During the last 40 years, if you wanted to build an audience, you pretty much needed a large label - not because they were good, but because they held a stranglehold between themselves on distribution, they could send pluggers to visit all the stations, they set the rules of engagement and they were the game. It's easier to Not Be On A Major now, which means you can, if you wish, run a campaign from your rehearsal room.<br /><br />But if you don't want to, as soon as you start to be successful, you can buy in services to cover the bits you don't want to do.<br /><br />For some reason, I'm thinking of how Dave Gahan's then-partner used to run the Depeche Mode information service - even when they were quite a large act - as an example of how this sort of approach can work.<br /><br />People don't like paying for stuff - not much or not at all. And when people don't like paying for anything, all labor turns into the slave variety.<br /><br />I don't know if that's true. Are NHS surgeons slave labour?<br /><br />The trouble is that everyone blames the consumer: <i>people don't want to pay for things</i>. But given that virtually everyone under the age of 50 in the West could get access to any album without paying, and yet still record labels take millions of pounds suggest that isn't the case.<br /><br />It helps to stop thinking of record labels as selling music, and consumers as buying music. The labels charge for distributing pieces of plastic about the country; consumers pay for the convenience of being able to hear a song when they want to. People buy digitally because getting digital files without paying is a faff, in the same way that they bought 7" singles because they could control when they'd hear the song instead of waiting for it to turn up on the radio. <br /><br />Consumer behaviour hasn't changed - they'll still pay for convenience (the Spotify app is sold on the basis of making streaming music to your phone simple, not the music itself; iTunes has a smaller range than the Torrents, but it's one click, and downloaded quickly and so on.)<br /><br />The trouble is, record label behaviour hasn't changed, either. They're still fighting to try and save an industry that is built around distribution.Simon Hayes Budgenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07084524317888577404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-8261863034088929082010-08-21T09:26:43.626+00:002010-08-21T09:26:43.626+00:00Unless, that is, you think these areas of the indu...Unless, that is, you think these areas of the industry will thrive via a network of volunteer guitar techs, radio pluggers or mastering engineers.<br /><br />I think we need to put radio pluggers to one side, briefly, and you're right, that there are non-musician people will still need to be paid. I'm not sure you're totally wide of the mark when you mention "volunteers", though - look at the live music and club scene, where many, many thousands of nights are put together by people who don't do it for a living - and quite often at a loss. Other roles? There's still money around - people are still buying records; radio is still generating royalty payments; there's live and licensing and fan-funding. The shape of how money flows around music is changing, but that doesn't mean that everyone will be working for free.<br /><br />Remember: just because something is not paid for at the point of use doesn't mean it's not been paid for somewhere along the line.<br /><br />Radio pluggers, though? Back when there was only snail-mail and telephones, and hundreds of radio stations, the radio pluggers were vital in the process. But they're starting to feel increasingly like the people who used to visit the independent shops every week with the new releases - there's still some work to be done, but they feel a little like the people who used to deliver ice to houses at the start of the last century.<br /><br />Someone said should musicians be doing a lot of the donkey work rather than focusing on the creative process? I tend to think, well, yes, but that misses the point.<br /><br />During the last 40 years, if you wanted to build an audience, you pretty much needed a large label - not because they were good, but because they held a stranglehold between themselves on distribution, they could send pluggers to visit all the stations, they set the rules of engagement and they were the game. It's easier to Not Be On A Major now, which means you can, if you wish, run a campaign from your rehearsal room.<br /><br />But if you don't want to, as soon as you start to be successful, you can buy in services to cover the bits you don't want to do.<br /><br />For some reason, I'm thinking of how Dave Gahan's then-partner used to run the Depeche Mode information service - even when they were quite a large act - as an example of how this sort of approach can work.Simon Hayes Budgenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07084524317888577404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-48512200957292592062010-08-20T13:05:36.086+00:002010-08-20T13:05:36.086+00:00Well done!Well done!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-13058737416535623982010-08-20T11:59:38.930+00:002010-08-20T11:59:38.930+00:00So, Paul McGuinness is saying libraries are bad. O...So, Paul McGuinness is saying libraries are bad. Or have I got that wrong.<br /><br />And also, If the ISPs are supposed to help the majors, maybe the majors should help the indies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-61628284303969607812010-08-20T03:19:58.882+00:002010-08-20T03:19:58.882+00:00Spend 20 years of your life making and releasing m...Spend 20 years of your life making and releasing music and then comment. Hard out here for a pimp...lols.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-39007144361366102362010-08-19T23:56:31.287+00:002010-08-19T23:56:31.287+00:00Just noticed I mentioned few years way too many ti...Just noticed I mentioned few years way too many times in that post apologies!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-65025553287026538262010-08-19T23:53:36.842+00:002010-08-19T23:53:36.842+00:00All this from a man who earns more than all of U2 ...All this from a man who earns more than all of U2 put together. Oh and did he mention he's also their publisher? So he's not just getting his manager's cut he's also getting a sizeable chunk of their publishing. A fatcat of the highest degree. How many new artists has he invested in over the last few years? The great thing about the internet and advancement in music tech over the last few years it that you don't have to sell body parts to record new music these days, if you're clever enough you can market yourself, and if you're worth your salt you can make plenty of money from live shows. He's also neglected to mention the BILLIONS of songs legally downloaded and paid for on iTunes and the like over the last few years. <br />I've been to MIDEM many times and the one thing I've noticed over the years is that the industry spent far too much time and money fannying about with new formats that never saw the light of day rather than just getting out and supporting their artists. <br />Most artists have nothing but disrespect for the major labels because they pump obscene amounts of money into a few artists and do nothing to develop new talent. I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-10037133364535922242010-08-19T23:18:19.611+00:002010-08-19T23:18:19.611+00:00Awesome Post.Awesome Post.Not An Anonymous Cowardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-73108274475531418562010-08-19T20:14:36.485+00:002010-08-19T20:14:36.485+00:00U2 ARE THE BEST XU2 ARE THE BEST XAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-41038830643021903942010-08-19T19:20:45.426+00:002010-08-19T19:20:45.426+00:00Dear Mr. McGuinness, May I please have the money y...Dear Mr. McGuinness, May I please have the money your company 'Record Services' owe me for the charity single they distributed in 2000 and didn't pay ? While you're at it could you ask them to return the stock they mis-distributed ? You must have mislaid the faxes, letters and phone messages.<br />FOAD<br /><br />Me xiMADEtheBBChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02093688875467499436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-86828564418621222522010-08-19T19:14:30.369+00:002010-08-19T19:14:30.369+00:00There were a lot of smart and funny points in this...There were a lot of smart and funny points in this post and am far from a fan of U2, but this doesn't get into the complexity of this situation that digital media has gotten us into. Totally agree with the anonymous at 19/8/10 5:22 PM. Even if the music industry sucked and got greedy and out of hand, the need for those services is there - pretty much everything except disk manufacturing and printing. <br /><br />It's easy to think in the old days only fat, greedy, evil industry people were making money and now they aren't, so isn't that great? But the gist really is that consumers like getting media for free and people who make their money off infrastructure (those bad ISPs) like to give that to them because they make money off peripheral services. Many (perhaps non evil people, recording engineers, session musicians, office workers, journalists, etc.) are losing their jobs every day due to this fact. Yes there's technology and corporate cluelessness, but there's also the phenomenon that pushed all our (US) industry overseas and made Walmarts pop up everywhere. People don't like paying for stuff - not much or not at all. And when people don't like paying for anything, all labor turns into the slave variety. The insistence that people will pay for good music is just not true when it's so easy not to. There's just something kinda gross about people goofing off in their office jobs or at home with their parents (because there are no jobs) celebrating the loss of other people's jobs so they could get shit for free. Maybe Lily Allen isn't the smartest, I honestly didn't follow that whole story. But I heard some boy on the radio who was a "fan" of hers that made a parody song about her distaste for piracy. He felt she should be thankful he steals her music because sometimes he listens to it around other people and then they like it and (maybe) buy it. Does that argument work for TVs too? I know property is different from intellectual property, but teenagers thinking they have to the right to decide the business model for products or services they want is ridiculous. The range of what can be created for no money is extremely narrow.amynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-81826424524746506502010-08-19T19:00:02.435+00:002010-08-19T19:00:02.435+00:00"Music is free. Its free when some dude on th..."Music is free. Its free when some dude on the street corner plays it from his guitar. Its free on the radio."<br /><br />The dude on the street corner is probably hoping that someone will put some coins in his hat. Royalties for radio play are collected by the PRS and PPL and paid for by advertising/BBC license fee. Just because you don't (directly or otherwise) pay for something doesn't mean it is 'free'.<br /><br />What I object to as a musician - and what this post nails brilliantly - is the fact that the music industry has a history of making a small number of people offensively rich whilst making it harder for most bands and artists to make a fair living.Alison Ealeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10895847106802767136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-82120651544584400462010-08-19T18:40:08.758+00:002010-08-19T18:40:08.758+00:00Awesome!Awesome!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-89169082721011132022010-08-19T18:01:14.916+00:002010-08-19T18:01:14.916+00:00I would find your arguments more persuasive if the...I would find your arguments more persuasive if they included pictures of you with U2.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1930103.post-9076097107839909242010-08-19T17:22:04.798+00:002010-08-19T17:22:04.798+00:00"Why should music fans care about middle-men ..."Why should music fans care about middle-men like McGuinness?"<br /><br />Because "middle-men like McGuinness" allow musicians to get on with the thing they're most interested in - making music. Otherwise, they'd neither need nor want to hire tour managers, booking agents, drivers, technicians, people to man the merch desk, design the t-shirts, work at getting the music written about or played on the radio, book recording studios, rehearsal rooms and mastering suites, hire lighting rigs, PAs and backline equipment, seek out sympathetic producers and engineers, find distributors for the record, get the record manufactured, get it in the shops, make sure the royalties get collected, etc., etc. <br /><br />You see, that's what "middle-men" do. In your brave new world, the responsibility for taking care of all those roles - "stoking the star-maker machinery behind the popular song", as Joni Mitchell once put it - will lie with the musicians themselves, and it will come at the expense of the creative process. Unless, that is, you think these areas of the industry will thrive via a network of volunteer guitar techs, radio pluggers or mastering engineers. Meanwhile, for every new business model the industry comes up with, whether hair-brained or inspired, some (if not most) of you will still be more interested in finding new ways of getting it all for nothing.<br /><br />You get the culture you deserve. Try not to choke on it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com